Share on
Apologetics for the Masses #521 - Dialogue With Pastor Dan Delzell re: Will Pope Leo XIV Preach John 3:16? (Part 2)
Unsubscribe/Subscribe
https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter/unsubscribe - to unsubscribe from this newsletter
https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter - to subscribe to this newsletter
Topic
Continuing my conversation with Lutheran Pastor Dan Delzell about his article in "The Christian Post" online magazine, titled: "Will Pope Leo XIV Preach John 3:16"?
General Comments
Hey folks,
A few things:
1) VERY IMPORTANT!!! - for all of you who have Gmail.com email addresses, please put admin@biblechristiansociety and john@biblechristiansociety in your email address books. Google is on again off again with marking our emails as "spam," which causes you to receive them only sporadically (those times when Google hasn't blacklisted us) and plays havoc with other folks receiving the newsletters because if Google's server marks our emails as "spam," then that often results in other servers doing the same.
So, again, please put john@biblechristiansociety.com and admin@biblechristiansociety.com in your email address books - particularly if you have a gmail.com account, but even if you don't. It would help us out tremendously! Also, if you know how to "whitelist" those two email addresses, as well as our website - biblechristiansociety.com - i.e., tell Google that we're "okay" and that we're not sending you spam, that would also be of tremendous help to us!
2) Please keep my continuing evangelization efforts here in the Birmingham area in your prayers. My plan is to systematically reach out to every single person in the Greater Birmingham Metro Area with the truths of the Catholic Faith. I plan to go zip code by zip code to accomplish this. Phase I is to mail a Catechism of the Catholic Church to every single non-Catholic pastor in a particular zip code, along with a letter stating, essentially, that should that pastor have occasion to speak about the Catholic Church - from the pulpit, in a Bible study, or in a Sunday School class - they could get their information "straight from the horse's mouth," so to speak.
Phase II of the plan is to mail every household and business in that zip code a Catholic tract - The Roman (Catholic) Road to Salvation - explaining, using the Bible, Catholic teaching on salvation.
Phase III, is to mail every household and business in that zip code a Catholic tract - Which Church is THE Church of the Bible - which is a short, multiple choice quiz, that uses Scripture, history, and common sense and leads people straight to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is THE Church of the Bible.
I'm about to start Phase III in the 35094 zip code - Leeds, Alabama and the surrounding area; and soon to start Phase I in the 35005 zip code - Adamsville, Alabama and the surrounding area. Both Leeds and Adamsville are suburbs of Birmingham.
St. Francis de Sales is said to have converted some 60,000 people in Geneva, Switzerland - the very heart of Calvinist territory - by going around and slipping Catholic tracts under their doors. I can't slip the tracts under people's doors, but I can get them in their mailboxes. Nothing like this has been tried anywhere else in the country, at least, not that I am aware of.
If you would like a copy of either of those tracts, or the letter that I mail out to pastors along with the Catechism, just shoot me an email.
3) Finally, on a personal note, I would like to request prayers, if you would, for the repose of my mother's soul. She passed away a week ago Sunday, just three weeks shy of her 97th birthday. We buried her this past Wednesday. We were blessed to have her with us for as long as we did, and we were doubly blessed that she was able to stay in her home of 68 years all the way up to the end. Her name is Florence Martignoni. My family and I greatly appreciate any and all prayers you would be willing to offer for her. Thank you!
Introduction
A few months back, Pastor Dan Delzell, a Lutheran minister, wrote an article in "The Christian Post" - an online Evangelical magazine - that was titled: Will Pope Leo XIV Preach John 3:16? I responded to that article in Issues #513 and #514 of this newsletter. I then contacted Pastor Delzell and offered him the opportunity to respond to what I had said in my newsletters about the theological/biblical claims he had made in his article. I printed his response in the last issue - Apologetics for the Masses - Issue #520. I hope at least some of you took the time to look at what he said and to think about how you would reply to him. Did he contradict himself in places? Did he make claims unsupported by the Bible? Did he ignore key statements and Bible verses that I presented in my original critique of his article? What questions would you ask him in response?
In this issue, I will begin my reply to what he had to say about my critique of his article. This will take at least two issues, possibly three. I'll take what he said paragraph by paragraph, with my comments interspersed between his. Note: Except for the very first comments section below, I'll be responding to him directly. So, my comments will not include anything on the thinking/strategy behind why I say what I say in my responses. I might come back and do a "strategic analysis" of the conversation in another issue.
Anyway, lock and load...
Challenge/Response/Strategy
John,
My Comments
What I do here, in this newsletter, is a courtesy that no Protestant would accord me in regard to the subscribers of their newsletters or the members of their congregations - print out, unedited, the entirety of an opponents' questions about, and/or arguments against, the teachings of my faith. Do you think Mike Gendron would ever print anything I said in response to one of his articles or one of the claims of his newsletters? Would he share my remarks with anyone, anywhere? Of course not! Do you think any of the Protestants (or atheists, for that matter) that I've locked horns with in these newsletters would ever share my unedited remarks - questions/arguments - regarding their particular faith beliefs (or lack thereof) and the Bible with any audience to which they have access? Of course not! Why not? Because error fears truth. Truth does not fear error. That's why I have absolutely no compunction about printing in this newsletter - for all of you tens of thousands of Catholics to read - the questions, arguments, half-truths, and even outright lies made by others about the Catholic Faith. Truth does not fear error. Error fears truth.
Pastor Delzell
My Comments
Actually, Dan, what I think in regard to the number of Catholics and Protestants in Heaven is completely irrelevant to this conversation. I do not know the state of anyone's soul, do you? The Bible tells us that it is God Who searches the hearts and minds of men (Rev 2:23), not me, nor you, nor anyone else. Although, what you are saying here seems to be in contradiction to what Jesus said: "For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." And, again, in Matt 22:14, "For many are called [to the wedding feast], but few are chosen." You use the phrase, "a significant number," Jesus uses one word, "few".
Regarding works washing away sin, if you are informed in regard to Catholic teaching, then there is no need for you to "suspect" anything in regard to what I believe on that matter. The Catholic Church teaches (dogmatically) that our good works do not - in any way, shape, or form - wash away sin. And, as a Catholic, I believe wholeheartedly in what the Catholic Church teaches. Catholics are quite often ignorantly accused by Protestants of believing in a "works salvation". You, in fact, in your article in "The Christian Post," seemed to be implying that very thing. Yet, the Catholic Church does not now, nor has it ever, taught that a person can be saved by their works or that a person's works wash away sin. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant of Catholic teaching, or just plain ol' malicious.
My Comments
Exactly when the thief on the cross was sanctified and justified is again, irrelevant, to the conversation. Although, I find your use of the word "immediately" an interesting choice. Would you say that he was "justified and sanctified immediately" upon speaking up in defense of Jesus, or was he "justified and sanctified immediately" when Jesus replied, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise"? And, I would also like to ask: Would he have been "justified and sanctified" if he had never said a word?
And, whether or not the good thief would have "become stronger over time" in his "life of sanctification" is also irrelevant to this conversation. However, what I would offer in that regard is this question: Are you not familiar with the examples of those in the church of Ephesus (Rev 2:4-5), and the church of Sardis (Rev 3:1-5), and the church of Laodicea (Rev 3:14-16) who did not "become stronger over time" in holiness? So, it seems that sometimes Christians become stronger in their "life of sanctification," after their justification, but also that sometimes they become weaker. Would you agree?
My Comments
Well, if I believe, that you believe, "sanctification only happens later in the Christian life," that's because that is, in essence, what you said in your article in "The Christian Post". In that article you stated, and I quote: "Justification always precedes sanctification." You seem, however, to be backing off of that position by now saying that, "Sanctification takes place the moment a soul is converted, justified, saved, redeemed, born again, washed and forgiven," and that the good thief was "sanctified and justified immediately". Essentially, with this latest statement, you are saying that justification and sanctification take place simultaneously, as opposed to your previous claim that "Justification always precedes sanctification". I note the evolution in your belief and I would just like to say that you probably don't realize it, but this modified position of yours is a very Catholic position to take.
As I previously stated in my newsletters addressing your article in "The Christian Post," in accord with the Word of God, one must be sanctified - made holy - in order to be justified. Heb 12:14 - without holiness, no one will see the Lord. The order of the process of salvation is clearly laid out in 1 Cor 6:11 - one is washed (aka, baptized); through that washing one is sanctified (aka, made holy), and by virtue of that holiness one is justified (aka, saved). Then there is Rom 6:22 which tells us that the "end" of sanctification is "eternal life" (salvation/justification). I don't know how the Word of God could be much clearer.
Pastor Delzell
My Comments
Regardless, you reiterate above the position that a person is sanctified at "the moment" of conversion - i.e., that sanctification and justification occur simultaneously - as opposed to what you said in your article about justification always preceding sanctification. I find the modification of your belief on this matter rather interesting.
Pastor Delzell
My Comments
Furthermore, you state that Paul was "instantly justified" on the Damascus road. (By the way, my Bible doesn't say that. Can you give me book, chapter, and verse where yours does?) Which means he was also instantly sanctified at the same time. Yet, the Word of God tells us that Saul was not forgiven of his sins until he was baptized in Damascus. Acts 22:16, "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on His name." Do you believe that a person can be justified and sanctified before their sins have been forgiven?
{I'm going to stop here and pick up the discussion at this point in the next newsletter...}
Closing Comments
I hope all of you have a great week!
Donations
The Bible Christian Society is a non-profit organization that relies solely on your support to bring the truths of the Catholic Faith to tens of thousands of people throughout the U.S. and all around the world each year. If you would like to help us do what we do, you can donate online at:
https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/donations
or send a check to:
Bible Christian Society
PO Box 424
Pleasant Grove, AL 35127.
Anything you can do is greatly appreciated!
Unsubscribe/Subscribe
https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter/unsubscribe - to unsubscribe from this newsletter
https://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter - to subscribe to this newsletter
Share this newsletter on:
