Apologetics for the Masses #399 - Gendron's Response Dismantled

     “Whenever man is involved in attaining and/or preserving his salvation, there can never be assurance.”  Precisely right.  Although, I would say that there can never be "absolute" assurance.  Why?  Because man has free will and he can, at any moment during his life, turn away from God and reject his salvation just as the Prodigal Son turned away from his father and squandered his inheritance through sinful living.  
     “However, when one believes Jesus and His all-sufficient, finished work of redemption, he will be more certain of living eternally in heaven than one more day on earth.”  Again, precisely right.  However, being more certain of living eternally in heaven than living one more day on earth is not the same as having absolute assurance of salvation.  I have absolutely no assurance that I will see the morrow.  But, if I believe in Jesus and follow what He has taught, then I have 100% assurance in His promises...as long as I abide in Him.  Jesus, however, does not take away our free will, so we have no absolute assurance that we will continue abiding in Him for as long as we live.  That is why we must "take up [our] cross daily and follow [Him]" (Luke 9:23).  Daily, Mike...daily.
     Here’s the thing, Mike, man is always involved in attaining and/or preserving his salvation because God will not save us without our consent. We are saved gratuitously by the grace of God; however, we have to cooperate with that grace.  We have to repent.  We have to confess.  We have to be baptized.  God will not force these things on us.  If there was absolutely nothing we had to do in order to be saved, then all men would be saved, because God desires all men to be saved. 

     And, man is even more involved in this process in your theology than in mine because in your theology man is relying on his private, non-authoritative, non-binding, fallible interpretation of Scripture for what he believes, as opposed to relying on the teaching of the Church founded by Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit for what he believes.  You rely on your interpretation of the Bible for your beliefs in regard to salvation; yet, as you have admitted, since you are fallible, your interpretations of the Bible could be wrong!  That should cause you to wake up in the middle of every night screaming.  You can have no assurance of your own salvation because you are relying solely on your private fallible interpretations of Scripture for your beliefs about salvation, and those interpretations could be wrong...so says you!  I have the possibility of much greater assurance of salvation than you ever will outside of the Church.

Consider the following promises from God… (By the way, I am not interpreting these Scriptures).  Actually, you are interpreting these Scriptures.  You are interpreting them to mean that once a person is saved, then they cannot lose their salvation.  Yet, nowhere does a single one of these passages say such a thing. 

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:13).  That you may know you have eternal life.  Is "may" the language of absolute assurance?  Furthermore, those who believe in the name of the Son of God will indeed have eternal life.  But, there is nothing in this verse that says those who currently believe in the name of the Son of God will never turn away from believing in the name of the Son of God and lose eternal life.

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life (John 5:24).  Absolutely!  As a Catholic, I believe this 100%!  Again, though, nothing here that says they cannot, at some future point, cross back over from life to death through sin. 

God's gifts and his calling are irrevocable (Rom. 11:29).  Indeed they are.  When God offers you a gift, He will never take it back.  However, as Ezekiel 33:13 shows us, so very plainly, we can reject God's gifts even after we have received them.  "Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live [God freely gives his salvation - it is irrevocable], yet if he trusts in his righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered; but in the iniquity that he has committed he shall surely die," (Ezek 33:13).  God told the righteous...the saved...that he shall SURELY live - that's a promise from God that he will live...he will have life; yet, he trusted in the fact that he was saved (believed he had eternal security), committed sin, and in the sin he committed he shall surely die.  God's gifts and calling were irrevocable.  They were accepted.  And then they were rejected.

God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.  He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life (1 John 5:11-12).  Absolutely!  But, where does it say that after you have the Son and have life, that you can't then reject the Son and reject life?  Where does it say that?  John 15:1-6, tells us about Jesus being the vine and the branches are His followers.  To be joined to Christ as a branch to the vine means you're saved.  Yet, if those "saved" branches don't produce fruit (good works), they will be cut off from the vine...cut off from Christ...and thrown into the fire to be burned. 

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:1).  Amen!  And, as long as they abide in Christ Jesus, there will never be any condemnation for them. 

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One (1 John 2:1).  Wait a minute!  I thought Jesus' work of redemption was done?!  I thought everything that needed to be done was finished 2000-years ago on the Cross?!  This verse says He is still doing something on our behalf?  Which is it, Mike.  Was Jesus' work "finished" 2000-years ago on the Cross, or is He still doing something on our behalf today?  Is He still speaking to the Father in our defense?  And, if so, what is He offering to the Father on our behalf?  The blood of goats?  Or His own blood?

Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them (Hebrews 7:25).  Again, it looks, Mike, like Jesus is still interceding for us.  It is finished?  And, again, in what way is He interceding for us?  Is He dying on the Cross over and over again?  Is He still bleeding for us?  Or, is He possibly offering, or re-presenting, to the Father the blood that was spilled on the Cross in the once for all time sacrifice on the Cross? 

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one (John 10:28-30).  Amen!  No one can ever snatch anyone out of the hand of Jesus or the hand of the Father.  However, it doesn't say someone cannot voluntarily walk away from Jesus, as the lost sheep wandered away from its shepherd or that someone cannot voluntarily walk away from the Father as the Prodigal Son walked away from the father.

And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified (Rom. 8:30).  Again, Amen!  But, doesn't God predestine everyone for salvation?  After all, Scripture tells us that God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4) and that God is the savior of all men, especially those who believe (1 Tim 4:10). 

To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy (Jude v.24).  Jesus is indeed the one who is able to keep us from falling.  We can't do that by ourselves and of our own power.  But, again, it doesn't say Jesus will prevent us from falling against our will.  It doesn't say Jesus will prevent us from walking away from Him if we are determined to do so.  Sorry, but that kind of language just isn't there.  Look at 2 Peter 2:20-21.  Why does the Word of God tell us that those who have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ can then become entangled in those defilements again and be overpowered by them?  That makes no sense whatsoever if eternal security is true.

And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that He has given me, but raise them up at the last day (John 6:39).  Amen!  Amen!  And, Amen!  But, if that means eternal security, then how can branches of the vine, which is Christ, be cut off and thrown into the fire to be burned (John 15:1-6)?  How can the branches of the olive tree be threatened with being cut off from the olive tree (which is Christ) if they do not continue in His kindness (Rom 11:17-24)?  How can those who have tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the age to come then commit apostasy (Heb 6:4-6), if eternal security is true? 

Here are the questions again, along with my answers:

How can those who have been redeemed from the curse of the law be placed back under the curse? (Gal. 3:13; 4:5).  Through sin.  “Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?” (Rom 6:16)

How can one, who has been born again of incorruptible seed, die again? (1 Pet. 1:23).  Through sin.  Why do believers have to cut off their hand or pluck out their eye, if those members cause them to sin, in order to avoid going to Hell if they have been born of incorruptible seed and cannot die again? (Matt 5:29-30) How can branches of the vine be cut off and thrown into the fire to be burned (John 15:1-6) if they have been born of incorruptible seed and cannot die again?

How can a new creation return to what has passed away? (2 Cor. 5:17).  Through sin.  Again, see 2 Peter 2:20-22.  “It has happened to them according to the true proverb, the dog turns back to his own vomit...”

How can one who has been perfected forever be found imperfect? (Heb. 10:14).  Through sin.  The context of this verse is that Jesus’ one sacrifice is good for all time at perfecting those who are sanctified.  It does not say once you are sanctified, you are perfect forever.  That is one of those fallible interpretations of yours.  Are you perfect right now, for all time?  If, yes, then why do you lie about the Catholic Church and its teachings?  I would think that would be a sign of imperfection.  Why did Paul sometimes do the very things he hated, and not the things he wanted to do (Rom 7:14-15) if he was perfected for all time?

How can God‚s irrevocable gift of eternal life be taken back (Rom. 11:29).  It is never taken back.  But it can be rejected as I stated above.  

How can the Good Shepherd who gave His life for His sheep fail to protect and keep them? (John 10:1-30).  How did the sheep go astray (Matt 18:12-14) or how did the shepherd lose his sheep (Luke 15:4), if it is not possible for that to happen?  How did the Prodigal Son leave his father’s house and squander his inheritance if it is not possible for that to happen?  The Good Shepherd does not fail at anything; however, He will not force His sheep to stay in the sheepfold if they wish to leave.  The Good Shepherd does not take free will away from the sheep.  

How can the perpetual intercession of Jesus be denied? (Heb. 7:25). Through sin.  Those Jesus is interceding for can reject His intercession through their sin.  But, again, I thought the work of salvation was “finished” on the Cross 2000-years ago?  Why is Jesus perpetually interceding for us if His work is finished?  And, what is He perpetually interceding for us with?  Is he offering some sacrifice to the Father on our behalf?

How can those God predestined not be glorified? (Rom. 8:29-30).  Why are all men not saved if God desires all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4) and if God gave Himself as a ransom for all (1 Tim 2:6)?  Because of sin.

How can the proof of God‚s unconditional love be invalidated? (Rom. 8:31-39).  It’s not invalidated.  God loves us unconditionally and nothing can change that.  But, just because God gave His only begotten Son as a ransom for all men, doesn’t mean all men are saved, does it?  God does not take away our free will.  He does not force us to love Him.  He does not force us to do good and to avoid evil.  Because of that, we are free to sin and free to turn away from Him and free to squander our inheritance through sin, just like the Prodigal Son.

How can those God delivered from the power of darkness be sent back? (Col. 1:13).  Through sin.  Have you not read the rest of Colossians chapter 1?  “And you who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, He has now reconciled in His body of flesh by His death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before Him, PROVIDED that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope fo the gospel which you heard...” (Col 1:21-23).  We will be presented holy and blameless “provided” we continue in the faith.  The King James Version says, “if” we continue in the faith.  Seems sort of “conditional,” doesn’t it.  Why would Paul say such a thing if it’s not possible to turn away from the faith?  Once again, your fallible interpretation has failed you and led you astray.

How can those made complete in Christ become incomplete? (Col. 2:10).  Through sin!

How can those who were saved without human effort or merit be condemned again because of demerits or failure? (Eph. 2:8-9).  Through sin!  By the way, you have read verse 10 of Ephesians 2, haven’t you?  There is a set of good works that God has prepared for each of us that we should walk in them.  If we don’t, are we still saved?

How can any man undo a sovereign act of Almighty God? (John 1:12-13).  Through sin!  Were Adam and Eve saved before they sinned?  How is it they undid “a sovereign act of Almighty God Who” and experienced spiritual death and were thrown out of the Garden of Eden, even after God created them perfect - without sin - and He saw that His creation was very good?  Through sin!  Was the Prodigal Son saved while he was in his father’s house?  If so, how did he undo “a sovereign act of Almighty God” and squander his inheritance from his father?  Through sin!  Were the branches attached to the vine saved while they were attached to the vine (John 15)?  How did they undo a “sovereign act of Almighty God? and get cut off from the vine?  Through sin!

How can God, who is holy and cannot lie, break His promise?  (Titus 1:2).  God does not lie and does not break His promises.  And nothing in Titus 1:2 is contrary to anything the Catholic Church teaches because, once again, your fallible interpretation of this verse, has caused you some theological problems.  Where does Titus 1:2 say anything about “eternal security” or “once saved always saved” or that you “can’t lose your salvation”?  It doesn’t.  That is what you have twisted the verse to mean.