Apologetics for the Masses - #272

Topic

Continuing my conversation with Mr. Don Jackson...

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General Comments

Hey folks,

A few things:

1) I want to give you a heads up about a really good book on the Mass - The Biblical Roots of the Mass, by Thomas Nash. It's not too technical and it gives a really thorough rundown on the Old Testament grounding of the Mass and then gets into the New Testament and the Catechism. He explains the "Order of Melchizedek," talks about the Mass in the Early Church, and more and does it all in a way that doesn't require one to have a Theology degree in order to understand it all. This is a book you can use to deepen your own understanding and experience of the Mass, in addition to helping you in your conversations with non-Catholics - you can even give them a copy and challenge them to, "Read it, and let me know where it goes wrong." If you're interested, you can get a copy here: http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Roots-Mass-Tom-Nash/dp/1622822595/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1455290009&sr=1-1&keywords=the+biblical+roots+of+the+mass I highly recommend it!

2) I've put out another YouTube video in my series of "Questions Protestants Can't Answer," for your viewing enjoyment (hopefully). The question this time is: "Who are the men Jesus is talking about in Matthew 19:11-12 who 'make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom?'" You can view the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWoN_gI2AQ8.

3) I've just finished taping 7 more episodes of Blue Collar Apologetics for EWTN Television. Hopefully they will air this summer - I'll keep you informed about that. We did episodes on Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, the Rapture, Authority and the Pope, Mary, Once Saved Always Saved, and the Eucharist. Please keep this project in your prayers. We still need to film the opening and closing skits and do all the editing and such.

4) Finally, I want to give a big THANK YOU! to all of those who responded to my semi-annual appeal in December. We raised enough funds to make some very needed changes to the website - some of which are still in progress (which is why this newsletter didn't go out last week as promised). We will soon have a search engine and the little tags on the newsletter that will allow for easy dissemination by all of you on Facebook and Twitter and I think one or two other social media avenues. We'll be adding some other features to the site as well. And, I was also able to purchase some new equipment that will help with the CD dubbing and with the recording of new talks. So, again, my humble thanks for your generous response!

Introduction

This is the next-to-last part of Don Jackson's previous response to me that I've been dissecting in the last couple of newsletters - http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter/detail/341 and here: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter/detail/342. Initially I was going to make this my final response, but he asks a couple of questions, the answers to which I think deserve their own newsletter. So, I'll have one more part of this next week. This week, though, I'll start by posting the entirety of this last part of his response, and then repeat his response with my comments intermingled.

Challenge/Response/Strategy

Don Jackson

The “first 12 leaders” were apostles to the circumcision and will “sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel” in the coming kingdom. Are there 12 tribes in your church? Which tribe do you belong to? The Body of Christ was first revealed to the apostle to the Gentiles, Paul. (Ephesians 3:1-10; Colossians 1:26 where the word “now” is the Greek word nuni and means “just now.” You should also read Romans 16:25. The “mystery” was first revealed to Paul. You are absolutely wrong when you state that the kingdom is the church. NOT SO! Israel was promised a kingdom on earth. Paul writes that our citizenship is in heaven.” Phil 3:20.. Israel has an earthly hope and calling while the Body of Christ has a heavenly hope and calling. You could use a very basic course on “rightly dividing the Word of Truth.” [2 Tim. 2:15].

You ridicule “rightly dividing the Word of Truth>” But the apostle Paul tells us that we are “approved of God by studying and rightly dividing the word of truth.” [2 Tim. 2:15]. And you deny the Biblical truth of Matthew 15:24 and Romans 15:8. Please explain those Scriptures, do they mean what they say or do you “spiritualize” them to mean something else?

I have already answered your problem with 2 Peter 3:15. Paul wrote the book of Hebrews to the same Jews that James, Peter and John wrote their letters to. James writes to the “Twelve tribes scattered abroad.” Is that Israel or the church? Did James, Peter and John lie to Paul about confining their ministry to the Jews? [Gal. 2:9}.

Give me your take on Peter addressing:

Acts 2:14 “….ye men of Israel….”

Acts 2:22 “Ye men of Israel….”

Acts 2:36 “…..Let all the house of Israel…..”

Acts 5:31 “….a Prince and a Savior, to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.”

Did Peter offer the return of the Lord Jesus Christ to establish the Jewish kingdom in Acts 3:19-21?

The “one body” is the Body of Christ. Paul is the only writer to name the church as the Body of Christ.

You claim that I “reject” Peter’s letters, Mark, Luke and Acts. That is patently false and you know it.

You claim that the Catholic denomination teaches that “we are saved by God’s grace and God’s grace alone.” I wonder why EVERY Catholic that I have asked [both laity and clergy], “what must I do to be saved?” have presented a system of works to me? “Poor catechesis” from an infallible church, I suppose.

Your “spiritualization” of 1 Thess. 4:13-18 is pitiable. Our Lord does not return to earth in these verses. He comes in the air and “catches us up” – verse 17. Haydock says that there is a “judgement” associated with this coming in the air, NOT SO. No judgement is even hinted at in these verses. On the contrary, Pauls says that we should “comfort one another with these words.

John, should you even be discussing the Word of God with me? Does your denomination approve of this? My friend, you need a very basic course in exegesis of the Word of God. You couldn’t be more wrong in most of your observations. Quit the “straw dummyism” stragety and start proclaiming the true gospel of the grace of God. That man is saved by grace through faith and not of works – Romans 4;4,5; Ephesians 2:8,9.
John: You seem to think that there is "only one gospel" taught in the Bible. Only one bit of "good news'? Really? Answer these questions:

John the Baptist, our LORD Jesus Christ and the 12 apostles all preached the gospel of the kingdom. Is that gospel the same as the gospel of the grace of God that Paul proclaims? What is the content of the gospel of the kingdom?

In Luke 9;6 Our LORD Jesus Christ sent the apostles to preach the gospel. What was the content of that gospel? Was it the gospel as found in 1 Cor. 15:1-4? Show me from Scripture.

I know that you will give due diligence to these questions.

Thanks,

Don Jackson, SBG + Nothing

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Don Jackson

John Martignoni

Don, are you not aware that the "12 tribes of Israel" are the Old Testament church, and that the church is the New Testament Israel? This is very clearly seen by the fact that the relationship between God and Israel is described as a marital relationship all throughout the Old Testament - Isaiah 54:5-6; Jeremiah 3:1-10; Ezek 16:8, 38 and 23:37; all of Hosea; and many other places where it says that Israel has "played the harlot" by worshipping other gods or has committed adultery by abandoning the one true God. And then, in the New Testament, the relationship between God and the Church is described as a marital relationship. We see this explicity so in Ephesians 5:31-32, but in other places as well. So, either God has committed adultery by taking another wife (the Church) while His first wife (Israel) is still living, or the Church and Israel are one and the same - the people of God. Does not Paul say that a person "is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal," (Rom 2:28-29). In other words, those who have received the circumcision of the heart - the circumcision of Christ - baptism (Col 2:11-12), are spiritual Jews...spiritual members of the tribe of Judah.

Furthermore, how can you say the Body of Christ was "first" revealed to Paul, when nowhere does the Bible say such a thing? You continually add words to Scripture. In fact, Scripture states the opposite of what you claim. We see that Jesus tells us in Matthew 16 that he will establish His church. And in Matthew 18, He talks about taking disputes to the church. Well, is not the church described as the "Body of Christ" in Scripture? Indeed it is. In fact, it is described as such right before one of the very verses you cite. You cite Col 1:26, and in Col 1:24, the church is clearly identified as the Body of Christ. So, if the church is the body of Christ, and Jesus spoke of the church to the Apostles well before Paul ever became a Christian, how can you claim that this was "first" revealed to Paul? Again, a passage you cite contradicts your claim: Ephesians 3:5, "...as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets by the same Spirit." When did the Spirit reveal it to the Apostles? On the day of Pentecost, in Acts, chapter 2.

I have to say, you are exceedingly well versed in certain parts of Scripture, but your difficulty lies in the fact that you are apparently unable to see how the parts all work together.

Don Jackson

You ridicule “rightly dividing the Word of Truth.” But the apostle Paul tells us that we are “approved of God by studying and rightly dividing the word of truth.” [2 Tim. 2:15]. And you deny the Biblical truth of Matthew 15:24 and Romans 15:8. Please explain those Scriptures, do they mean what they say or do you “spiritualize” them to mean something else?

John Martignoni

Yes, Don, I do ridicule "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" - it's a bad translation of the Greek. But even more, I ridicule your faulty, fallible, man-made, non-authoritative private interpretation of the phrase "rightly dividing the truth." Only two Bibles that I know of translate the Greek word used in 2 Tim 2:15 as "dividing." The Greek word is "orthotomeo," which means "to cut straight ways or proceed on straight paths;" or "to teach the truth directly and correctly" - according to Vine's Expository Dictionary. Nowhere else in the Bible is that word used to mean "divide." The Greek words most often used to mean divide are "merizo" and "diamerizo" which actually mean, "to divide." Those two Bibles I mentioned are the Geneva Bible - a Calvinist bible - and the King James - an Anglican bible. My Bible says, "rightly handling the word of truth." Every Protestant bible - other than the two already mentioned - say basically the same thing as my Catholic bible. So, who are you to say which translation is better? The translation used by most of the Bibles in print - including some that date back to the 4th century - or the translation used by two Bibles 1500 years after the death of Jesus? Furthermore, do either the Calvinists or the Anglicans interpret that passage as you do? No, they do not! In fact, no one until maybe within the last hundred years or less, has ever interpreted that passage from 2nd Timothy as you do. You are believing in a novelty, Don. You are believing in a dogma that divides the New Testament into that which is meant for the Jews and that which is meant for the Gentiles, when the Word of God itself says that man shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). Your interpretation results in division within the people of God, and Jesus Himself says that a house divided against itself cannot stand. So, yes, Don, I ridicule your interpretation of "rightly dividing the truth."

Strategy

This business of dividing the New Testament into parts meant for the Jews and parts meant for us Gentiles is one of the most bizarre things that I have ever come across in biblical interpretations. It just shows how crazy things can get when people have no authority that they answer to other than their own imagination.

Don Jackson

Give me your take on Peter addressing:

Acts 2:14 “….ye men of Israel….”

Acts 2:22 “Ye men of Israel….”

Acts 2:36 “…..Let all the house of Israel…..”

Acts 5:31 “….a Prince and a Savior, to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.”

Did Peter offer the return of the Lord Jesus Christ to establish the Jewish kingdom in Acts 3:19-21?

John Martignoni

No. Don, you have not answered the problem that your "right division" dogma has with 2 Peter 3:15. Can you tell me where the Bible tells us that Paul wrote the Letter to the Hebrews and, furthermore, that Paul wrote that letter to the same Jews that Peter, James, and John wrote their letters to? You know, for a guy who goes by the Bible alone, you sure do believe in a lot of stuff that isn't in the Bible. What evidence can you give me to back up your claim here? I'll answer for you - none! Furthermore, as I have previously stated, nowhere does the Bible say that Peter, James, and John would "confine" their ministry to the Jews. Galatians 2:9 does not use the word "confine." Once again you are adding to the Bible to make it say what you want it to say - just like Martin Luther did. According to your interpretation of Galatians 2:9, you would have Paul telling Peter, James, and John that he was "confining" his ministry to the Gentiles. Yet, you have already stated that Paul wrote the Letter to the Hebrews, according to some tradition that you cannot name. So, back at you: Was Paul lying to Peter, James, and John when he said he would "confine" - to use your word - his ministry to the Gentiles? Furthermore, as I have pointed out previously, did Paul not first go into the synagogues and debate with the Jews in every city he came to? How is that "confining" his ministry to the Gentiles? Do you even bother to read what I write, Don?

Regarding my "take" on Peter addressing only the men of Israel, am I missing something here, Don, or do you not realize that no one had begun preaching the Word to the Gentiles yet? That did not occur until Jesus commanded Peter - not Paul - to do so in Acts 10!

Strategy

Always, always, always be sure to call a sola scriptura person on claims they make that nowhere appear in the Bible. And, should you not be sure if what they're saying is in the Bible or not, simply go to www.biblegateway.com and check it out by typing any phrase they've used into their search engine to see if it's actually in the Bible. Or, you can just ask them, "Please give me book, chapter, and verse from the Bible that says what you just said."

Also, can you see why I always say give them three times to answer the same question and, if they don't, then to abandon the conversation. And why I harp on repeating the questions until they do answer them. He doesn't even attempt to answer my questions. In fact, most of the time he doesn't even acknowledge that I have asked any questions. He wants to preach, but he does not want to listen. As Scripture rightly says about such as he, "They have ears, but do not hear."

Don Jackson

The “one body” is the Body of Christ. Paul is the only writer to name the church as the Body of Christ.

You claim that I “reject” Peter’s letters, Mark, Luke and Acts. That is patently false and you know it.

John Martignoni

Okay, Don, I'm going to go through this one more time. You believe that in order to be saved, all a person has to do is believe what you call "the gospel that saves" - 1 Cor 15:3-4. That passage states, "...that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures." Don, if you are truly a Christian, then I adjure you to answer this question: Have you ever asked a Catholic, "Who was it that was crucified and died for our sins, was buried and rose from the dead on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures?" Every Catholic you ask will answer, "Jesus Christ." Yet, you have never asked that question of a single Catholic have you? According to you, Don, if they know and believe that Jesus is the answer to that question, then they are going to Heaven...they are saved. So, what is more important, Don, to one's salvation - being able to answer your question as you phrase it - a question which is nowhere found in the Bible, or actually believing what the Bible says? Which is more important, Don? Every time a Catholic attends Mass, one of the prayers they say has this in it:

"I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God...for us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven...For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father."

At least once a week, Don, Catholics profess this belief. Is that not the "gospel that saves" that we are professing in? Then are we not saved, according to your theology? You hypocrite! You judge the salvation of others based not on what they believe and profess, but rather on whether or not they can answer a contrived question from Mr. Don Jackson - the judge of of all humanity - that is couched in Protestant terminology that most Catholics do not use. You condemn Catholics based not on what we believe and profess but on whether we can correctly answer your question. That is despicable!

Regarding my "spiritualization" of 1 Thes 4:13-18, I have done no such thing. Is there or is there not a resurrection of the dead in 1 Thes 4:13-18, Don? Yes, there is. Does Jesus not say that the resurrection of the dead will occur on the "last day" (John 6:39, 40, 44, 54)...yes or no? Yes, He does. Is there not a judgment on the "last day" (John 12:48)? Yes, there is. So, Don, this being "caught up in the air to meet the Lord," has to be occurring on the last day when the dead are raised and when the final judgment occurs. It cannot be a pre-tribulation rapture as you mistakenly believe. By the way, when, oh when, will you actually start addressing my arguments and answering my questions directly as I have done with every one of yours?

Strategy

Just hitting him right between the eyes with the truth of what it is he is doing. Mr. Don Jackson's soul is in great danger, and he needs to be shaken to the core in the hopes of making the scales fall from his eyes. And, again, this whole business of a pre-tribulation rapture, which so much of Protestantism believes in, is so directly opposed to the very clear words of the Bible that I constantly shake my head at folks who have eyes, but do not see. The dead are raised on the last day. The rapture passage in 1 Thes 4 has a resurrection of the dead. So, this "rapture"has to be occurring on the last day, period.

Don Jackson

John, should you even be discussing the Word of God with me? Does your denomination approve of this? My friend, you need a very basic course in exegesis of the Word of God. You couldn’t be more wrong in most of your observations. Quit the “straw dummyism” stragety and start proclaiming the true gospel of the grace of God. That man is saved by grace through faith and not of works – Romans 4;4,5; Ephesians 2:8,9. John: You seem to think that there is "only one gospel" taught in the Bible. Only one bit of "good news'? Really? Answer these questions:

John Martignoni

A couple of things here, Don. First, my Church is not a denomination. It is "THE" Church. The one founded by Jesus. By the way, I never got an answer to the question of which "church" you belong to. Where do you go to worship on Sunday, Don? Surely there is a name on the sign out in front of the building, isn't there? Or, is it as I suspect, and you simply stay home and worship at the Church of Don, because you can't find a pastor that agrees entirely with you? Secondly, my church does indeed approve of me discussing the Word of God with you. Two of what we call the spiritual works of mercy are: Instructing the ignorant and admonishing sinners. Finally, I do indeed, in accord with my church, proclaim "the gospel of the grace of God." Nowhere has my church, nor I, ever proclaimed that a man is saved by his own works. If you read back through my newsletters (www.biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter), you will see that I have, time and time again, proclaimed that we are saved by "God's grace alone." You have a mistaken understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches and believes. I cannot fault you for that, as there are a lot of misperceptions, half-truths, and outright lies out there about what we teach and believe. I can, however, fault you for the fact that the information about the truth of what we believe and teach is readily available to all, yet you have obviously not undertaken any serious study of Catholic belief and teaching to find it. In other words, your ignorance is deliberate. For that, and falsely accusing others, and lying about the beliefs of others, and self-righteously condemning others, you will one day be accountable. Think and pray very hard and very long about that, Mr. Don Fallible Jackson.

Strategy

This is a person whose heart appears to be very hardened and, again, needs to be knocked upside the head, so to speak, in order to try and get him to honestly and sincerely seek the truth, which he obviously has not done so far. So, I have no problem at all getting in his face, especially since I have explained these things to him a few times already with more "genteel" language, and it obviously hasn't been able to get through to him.

Don Jackson

In Luke 9;6 Our LORD Jesus Christ sent the apostles to preach the gospel. What was the content of that gospel? Was it the gospel as found in 1 Cor. 15:1-4? Show me from Scripture.

I know that you will give due diligence to these questions.

Thanks,

Don Jackson, SBG + Nothing

John Martignoni

I am actually going to leave these last couple of questions from Mr. Jackson for next week's edition of Apologetics for the Masses, so stay tuned...

Closing Comments

I hope you will all check out the YouTube video about the "eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWoN_gI2AQ8. And, remember, if you go to YouTube and type in: "Questions Protestants Can't Answer," there are now some 20+ videos up in that series. I hope to also be developing some "man-in-the-street" type videos at some point in the coming months. Something along the lines of "Watters' World" if you happen to ever see the O'Reilly Factor. I'm not a big fan of O'Reilly, but I really like the segments done by Jesse Watters.

I hope all of you have a great week! Please pray for my daughter and her team to do well in her volleyball tournament in Nashville this weekend...

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