Apologetics for the Masses #363 - Slickety Slick, Matt That Is...

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Topic

Matt Slick, one more round...

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General Comments

Hey folks,

I'm back! It's been almost two months since I sent out a newsletter, which is the longest I have gone without doing one since I started writing them some 16 years ago. I just needed a bit of a break. I was working 4 jobs, and I also had gotten it in my head that this semester would be as good a time as any to start back on my online Masters degree in Theology. I'm halfway through it, but stopped about 4 years ago because of the busyness of life at that time. Why I thought I could get back to it now, I don't know. I'll just attribute that to early onset stupidity.

Why get a Masters degree? After all, as some of you know, I often advise people that getting a degree in Theology will often be counter-productive to your efforts at being an effective apologist. Why do I say that? Well, quite often, if you don't go to one of the few solidly orthodox Catholic colleges or universities, your head could get filled with a lot of things that are not authentically Catholic. Or, sometimes, folks will go get a degree in Theology and then they want to of course use all of that knowledge in their conversations, and all of a sudden they're talking way over the heads of the common people or they're diving down to theological or philosophical depths in their conversation that are way, way deeper than necessary, which only serves to bog down the conversations.

My reason for getting one is simply because there are certain institutions, and certain people, who seem to think that you don't know anything at all about a topic unless you have these magical letters behind your name. So, someone talked me into getting into a Masters degree in Theology - even though I don't need one for anything that I am currently doing - and the rest is history. When I took on job #5 a few weeks ago, it soon became clear that something would have to give, and that was the course I had enrolled in for this semester. So, I dropped it the other day and now have the time, and the energy, to get back to these newsletters.

One other thing, a big thank you to all of you who donated to our end-of-the-year campaign. I am always grateful for the generosity you guys show year in and year out. You are a blessing to my family and me! And, just so you know, those donations are helping me to get started on some projects that have been sitting on the drawing board for a few years now. I am hoping to get a podcast going in the near future, which will be a continuation, of sorts, of my old program I had on local Catholic radio - Balaam's Ride (Balaam's Ride) and I have started work on an apologetics course - ostensibly for high school kids, but which could be used for Adult Ed, for PSR classes, for youth groups, and all sorts of other things. So, please keep those projects in your prayers!

Introduction

Apparently Matt Slick was recently reminded, or maybe made aware for the first time, of one of my newsletters that I published two years ago (#319: Apologetics for the Masses #319) in which I took apart an article of his that was posted on his website titled: Dear Catholic: Do You Know For Sure You Are Going to Heaven?. This article was, as you can imagine, all about how wrong we Catholics are when it comes to salvation. It is reprinted in its entirety in Issue #319, so you can read it there if you would like.

Well, he didn't like what I had to say in my response to his Dear Catholic article, so he recently posted a reply to my newsletter - actually, to selected parts of it - on his website. I am not going to respond, at least not fully, to this recent response of his, for two reasons:

1) It was a bit lengthy. This is because he never really made a direct response, with one exception noted below, to anything that I said. Instead, he used a lot of words to just talk all around what I said. For example, in his original article he asked: "If you're a Catholic, do you know for sure if you're going to heaven when you die?" I responded by asking him: " Is this little salvation quiz of yours in the Bible? If not, why are you asking it?" I mean, if its not in the Bible, and he's a Sola Scriptura kind of guy, then why bother asking or answering it? Yeah, he put down a couple of Scripture verses, neither of which contained the salvation quiz he had asked, and said they were "related" to the question, and then proceeded to list "the many requirements that the Roman Catholic church has for salvation," as he sees it. But he never answered my question!

2) He pretty much took most of what I said out of context and thus claimed I said things that I never said. So, in order to give a full response, I would first have to go back and correct him on all of the places he took me out of context and then respond to what he incorrectly asserted about what I said. Which would take quite a while.

But, despite all of that, I do want to point out a couple of things he stated in his response that are eye-opening, should you decide to read it:

A) Slick states that it is indeed the Lord who judges him, but then a little farther on, he goes ahead and judges himself to be justified. So, is it the Lord Who judges Slick, or does Slick judge Slick, contrary to what Scripture says?

B) He says, "...the one who [is saved] does not rely on anything he can do except trusts in Christ...". But then he goes on to say, "Yes, in a technical sense, I did something [to be saved]." (This was his only direct answer to a question of mine.) What does that mean: "in a technical sense" he did something? Either he did something or he didn't do something! There is no technical sense here. What a bunch of Martin Luther. He admits that he did something in order to be saved! He even goes so far as to say this: "It was my belief that justified me (Rom 3:28; 4:5), not anything I did in addition to the belief - nothing in the Law." Do you see what he said there?! He was justified by "[his] belief." His belief justified him! Not the grace of God that was merited for him by Jesus' death on the cross. His belief justifies him. I have mentioned this before about the dogma of salvation by faith alone - Protestants don't actually believe that God's grace is the immediate cause of their justification, it is their belief in God's grace that is the immediate cause of their justification...as Slick says here. God's grace is, at best, a secondary cause of their salvation. Wow!

Okay, that's it for my response to the main body of Slick's response to me. I may address other portions at a later time, but, for now, I am going to respond to the 8 questions that Slick asks of me at the end of his response, so that he can't claim I didn't answer him. Those will be dealt with below. And, after I answer his questions, I will post 8 questions of my own that I hope he will answer. I hope you enjoy...

Challenge/Response/Strategy

Matt Slick

Questions for Mr. John Martgnoni

1. Are you presently in a state of grace that should you die right now, you would enter into God's presence?

2. If yes, what is it you have done to merit God's grace?

3. If not, then what good thing(s) must you do to get God's grace?

4. Have you performed enough of the requirements that the Roman Catholic Church says is necessary for salvation including penance (CCC 980), sacraments (CCC 1129), service and witness to the faith (CCC 1816), keeping the ten commandments (CCC 2036 and 2070), and detachment from riches (CCC 2556).

5. If yes, are you then relying, in part, on your effort to maintain your salvation with God?

6. If not, then how can you be saved according to your own theology?

7. Are you or are you not keeping enough commandments of God to maintain your salvation before God?

8. How can you know you have eternal life according to 1 John 5:13 if your eternal life depends, in part, on your participation in the many requirents for salvation required by the Roman Catholic Church?

John Martignoni

1. Are you presently in a state of grace that should you die right now, you would enter into God's presence?

As I have previously stated to Slick, I do not judge myself, in accord with what Paul says in 1 Cor 4:4-5: "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord Who judges me. Therefore, do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, Who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart." You see, as it says in Proverbs 21:2 - "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart." In other words, every man has the ability to fool himself into thinking he is saved, but only the Lord can definitively make that judgment. I can't make that judgment about myself, but if Slick believes he can make that judgment about himself and, obviously, about me and all Catholics, more power to him.

I will limit myself to this statement by the great theologian, St. Joan of Arc, when asked if she was in a state of grace: "If I am not, may God put me there; and if I am, may God so keep me."

2. If yes, what is it you have done to merit God's grace?

As stated above in my answer to #1, I will not judge myself to be in a state of grace or not. I will leave that judgment for the Lord. However, I will give answer to the essence of Slick's question here, which is: Can you merit grace? Let's see what the Bible has to say on that subject:

Romans 2:6-7: “For He, [God] will render to every man according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in well-doing [i.e., good works] seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life." God gives, according to the Bible, eternal life to those who persevere in well-doing. Is that meriting grace? If not, then how about:

Colossians 3:23-24: "Whatever your task, work heartily as serving the Lord and not men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you are serving the Lord Christ." Huh, receiving the "inheritance" as a reward for "work[ing] heartily." I don't know, but that sure seems like meriting grace to me.

But, here's the thing, just to be perfectly clear on this - we cannot merit justification, that is a purely gratuitous act of God. We can, however, merit an increase in justification, an increase in grace, because after we are justified gratuitously by God, we are then members of the Body of Christ. Before justification, we cannot merit anything. But, after justification, we can merit an increase. Does Christ merit? Of course He does. If the Head merits, does not the body also merit? Of course it does. It would be foolish to say that the Head merits but the hand or the foot does not.

2 Cor 3:18, “And we all…are being changed from one degree of glory to another…” So, we can increase in justification…in glory. But, do we merit anything in this increase in glory?

Heb 13:16, “Do not neglect to do good…for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.” How can our sacrifices be “pleasing to God,” if we don’t merit anything? Shouldn’t it say that Jesus’ sacrifice is the only sacrifice pleasing to God?

Heb 13:20-21, “Now may the God of peace…equip you with everything good that YOU may do His will, working in YOU that which is pleasing in His sight…” We can merit because it is Christ working through us. Christ is crowning His own merits manifested in us.

     Heb 10:35, “Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.”
     Matt 5:11-12, “Blessed are you when men revile you…Rejoice and be glad for your reward is great in heaven.”
     1 Cor 3:14, “If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.”

There are many other passages that speak of a reward for what we do. How can we receive a reward for our works, if our works do not merit anything? A reward is something given in return for something we do, is it not?

3. If not, then what good thing(s) must you do to get God's grace?

Again, I will refer to my answer to Question #1 as to whether or not I am in a state of grace. However, I will, again, answer the essence of Slick's question: What can one do to get God's grace? I will again turn to Scripture for an answer: "But he gives more grace; therefore it says, 'God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.'" One can "get" God's grace through humility. I will also refer to the Scripture verses in my answer to Question 2 above. And, first and foremost, one receives the grace of God through the Sacraments.

I will first say that it is obvious Slick really has no clue what the Catholic Church teaches in regard to salvation. A person can "perform" all of the "requirements" (as Slick puts it), that he lists above, thousands of times over, and still not be saved. And, a person can "perform" but one of the "requirements," yet still be saved. So it is not a matter of "perform[ing] enough of the requirements" - what a perversion of Catholic teaching that is. It is a matter of all of those requirements leading, by the grace received from God, to holiness. As the Word of God states, "Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." God, if we cooperate with Him, in all the ways that the Scriptures tell us we need to cooperate with Him, will, by His grace, make us holy. If we are holy, we will see the Lord.

5. If yes, are you then relying, in part, on your effort to maintain your salvation with God?

I rely upon the grace of God to "maintain" my "salvation with God." "God...by the blood of the eternal covenant...working in you that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ," (Heb 13:20-21). "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure," (Phil 2:13).

6. If not, then how can you be saved according to your own theology?

Along the lines of what I stated above in my answer to Question #4, this question also betrays a deep ignorance of authentic Catholic teaching. Slick is, in essence, asking me a question about what he, Slick, believes my theology to be, as opposed to what it actually is. Therefore, I can't answer it. It makes as much sense as if he were asking me, "How do explain your belief that 2+2=5?" So, I will simply refer to my answers to Question 4 and 5 above.

7. Are you or are you not keeping enough commandments of God to maintain your salvation before God?

Again, this is essentially the same question as Question #1 and I will refer, firstly, to my answer to #1, but also to my answer to Question #4. I will say this, though, about keeping the commandments: "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love," (John 15:10). This implies that if you do not keep Jesus' commandments, then you do not abide in His love. And, if you do not abide in His love, then you are "thrown into the fire and burned," (John 15:6).

8. How can you know you have eternal life according to 1 John 5:13 if your eternal life depends, in part, on your participation in the many requirents [sic] for salvation required by the Roman Catholic Church?

I can "know" I have eternal life according to 1 John 5:13 because I believe in the promises of Christ. And I believe that if I "do whatever He tells [me]" (John 2:5), I will have eternal life. I believe that if I DO the will of God I will enter the kingdom of heaven (Matt 7:21), and that if I eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man I will have eternal life (John 6:53-54), and that if I forgive the sins of others my sins will be forgiven (Matt 6:14-15), and that if I am born again of water and the Spirit I will see the kingdom of God (John 3:3-5), and if I keep the commandments I will enter life (Matt 19:16-17), and if I become holy I will see the Lord (Heb 12:14), and if I feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and visit the sick and imprisoned I will enter into eternal life (Matt 25:31-46), and I believe that if I have faith I will be justified (Rom 3:28). I believe ALL the things Jesus has told me, not just one of them. That is how I can "know" I have eternal life.

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Now, my 8 questions for Mr. Slick

1) In Matthew 19:16, Jesus was asked, "What good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" Jesus responded, in verse 17, "If you would enter life, keep the Commandments." Do you agree with Jesus' answer?

2) If, "Yes," then how can you reconcile Jesus' answer with your statement: "I am saying that keeping commandments is not what saves us, keeps us saved, maintains our salvation, or contributes to our salvation in any way?"

3) In Eph 2:10, it says that God has prepared good works for us that we "should" walk in them. If we don't walk in them, can we be saved?

4) If, "Yes," how do you reconcile your answer with Matt 7:21 that says if we do not DO the will of God, we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

5) In John 6:51, Jesus says that the bread He wants to give us to eat, is the flesh that He will give for the life of the world. He gave His flesh for the life of the world on the Cross. Was Jesus' flesh on the Cross real, or merely symbolic?

6) If you answer "real," then if Jesus was talking about giving us His real flesh on the Cross as the bread which we are to eat in verse 51, do you then claim He was speaking of His symbolic flesh when He said we must eat His flesh and drink His blood and that His flesh and blood are real food and real drink in verses 53-58?

7) In John 15:1-6, Jesus talks about being the vine, are the branches Christians or non-Christians?

8) If Christians, then how is it the branches that don't produce fruit can be cast forth and thrown into the fire to be burned, an obvious reference to Hell?

Closing Comments

I hope all of you have a great week!

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